Awakening to Sensuality and Tantra with Henika Patel
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In this episode, Chandresh shares the tantra perspective of awakening to sensuality with Henika Patel. The following questions are covered:
What makes a woman fully loved and seen?
What do we need to learn about intimacy? What are we missing?
How does the role of the biological mother show up in this work?
Do you have early memories of tantra and goddesses becoming a more sacred part of you?
The role of Yoni Shakti in healing work.
How does one normalize their relationship with a woman's breasts?
How to maintain tantra work while still living and loving the family dynamic?
Henika is the founder of the School of Sensual Arts, a global platform leading the sensual revolution. The ethos invites you to connect deeply, express freely, love intimately, and lean into your desires so that you can lead life by the heart! As a British Indian, she offers a unique blend of her cultural lineage through eastern ancient traditions with her studies in western arts and psychotherapy. Having worked with Louis Theroux, Channel 4, and Women's Health Mag, she shares tantra yoga, sensual education, couples date nights, and Shakti circles to a worldwide online community with beautiful in-person retreats around London and Europe. To learn more about Henika, visit her on Instagram and Tiktok @henikapetal or her website at www.schoolofsensualarts.co.uk.
Episode Transcript
Chandresh: Hi, Henika, welcome. So happy to have you here.
Henika: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Chandresh: And I've been learning your flow, your work, your lessons, your experiences as a student and as a friend. So the questions I'm going to ask, they are from a friend, from a curious seeker, but also on behalf of many Leela listeners that I know who love you and who would want to hear more of you. So my first curiosity is not about the present Henika, but the little Henika. How were you as a little girl? Do you have any memories or details that still intrigues you about yourself when you were a kid?
Henika: Yeah. I love this question. It's so nice to go back and to hold our hands with our inner child's selves. And little Henika, she was always dancing, and she always had a very natural attraction to movement, and not because my parents took me to any school or anything, but just pulling on music and moving. I always found that movement expressed so much more than words for me, particularly as a child. So there was always this deep connection to that.
I grew up in the UK as the first generation Indian, so I have these memories of walking into my home where Indian culture was abundant, mantra, food, smells, colors, having my school life as well, which is a western education, and this marrying of these two worlds was a very... I guess, the common bridge that was happening, that was forming in my mind for even from a very young age. So I think these two things really, when I think of my childhood, I really think of the freedom in a freedom of dancing and movement, which I carry on into my adult life, which is really nice, and this marrying of these two worlds that I was coming into contact with.
Chandresh: And as a child, did you think you would be doing this work? You would be becoming this woman? Was that part of your vision, goal, hope, dream?
Henika: I really had no idea. The platforms that we share on at the moment didn't exist at that time. I didn't know the word tantra at that time. It was something that was happening in my home, but I didn't know it as that word. I always knew I was connected to movement and creativity and expression. I always wished and hoped maybe that would somehow be my path, but I experienced a grief at the age of 10. So I suppose this continues on into the experience of childhood, which meant that dancing heart, that creative heart that I had was too painful to look out for me in my teenage years. So I then moved into living in my head, and I studied English law and I studied French law. And so I spent probably the next 10 to 12 years operating from my neck upwards and totally forgetting this dancing devi that was in my heart. Yeah. So that was the transition between childhoods through grief into a very different state that I experienced.
Chandresh: So what I understand is the dancing devi, I love how you phrased it. She took a backseat because the capitalism, the modern world took over and you needed to survive, make sure you are feeling safe, successful. But of course, I think we can give the devi a backseat, but she doesn't like to stay there. She'll show up. So when did she started showing up for you and how?
Henika: Yeah. So there came this time when, I felt like, and I'm sure many of the listeners may resonate with this, I felt that I had followed the path of society, of studying and going to get a good job, and getting the apartment, and moving into the city, and all of those things. And inside all of the sensations that I had ignored over the course of the 12 years that I chose to live in my mind, consciously or unconsciously, my body started to respond to those. So bit by bit, I started to lose that connection with the sensations in my body, and it got to the point where I was actually very numb. And that came, I would say, a bit of a crisis point.
And I remember very dark days in that time. And I was living in Beijing at this time, and I remember looking out into... I was living on the fifth floor, I looked out into the windows and there were these bars outside the windows, and I wasn't sure at that point whether the bars were there to keep you in or to keep people from going out. And it was very, very dark period of my life. And in that moment, I saw this glimmer and it was a reflection of the city lights back inside me. And there was this moment where actually this, a spark came back inside of me. And from that moment, I realized actually that the sensations inside me, the spark was still there. And it was just something that I had not like a ghee lamp, I just hadn't pour the ghee in there for a long time.
And from that moment, I started to come back more into contact with these sensations that I now call sacred messengers inside my body. And from there I started to attend more and circles and things like this, just as an attendee like this. And there I heard Kali mantra, and I cannot describe really the deep coming home that I felt in that moment of hearing this sacred sound, this Kali mantra being reverberated in the room around me and inside of me. And through that, I was able to really start to look at some of the things that I had been avoiding, which was grief and the cycles of grief, and coming back into the sacredness that was my body and responded to some of those sensations. So that was quite a long way of saying how the devi came back to my heart, but it was really through these glistening moments of experience of life.
Chandresh: And do you think your relationship with grief and darkness, it has evolved or shifted since then?
Henika: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it was something in my teen years that I felt I didn't have the tools to even look at. And now I feel, with this path, that there's so much a part of life and so much of the cycle of our day is experiencing death as well. One breath dies to create a new one. And these simple observations just make it so much more accessible. And that darkness is not to be afraid that there is so much depth, so much creativity, so much spirit in death as well. And I'm continuing on that journey as I experienced life. But yeah, it definitely feels a lot more accessible now.
Chandresh: The way you shared that moment in Beijing, the bars were there, and you were questioning whether you're on this side or that side, I see a lot of awareness even in the Henika of those days. And if I would share this with my teacher, he would say, "Oh, there is some past life, good karma that kept you going, that helped you survive and made you the person you are today." But did you feel it that way that there is some unknown force or there is some wisdom you're channeling, or were you just trying to survive on a daily basis?
Henika: Yeah. I think I always knew that it was there. It was just that perhaps I had lost some contact with it. When I think about the dancing days of the devi in my heart as a child, and particularly in moments when I recall going to Navaratri, as a child, these nine nights of the Divine Feminine, and really feeling this entrancement, and this was always my favorite time of the year, I knew that spirit was in there. It was just about befriending her again and not leaving her behind. And I think that's from that moment it's been a case of befriending that spirit or befriending the devi within.
Chandresh: And maa Kali's growing presence, did that start within the family? Is the family devotee of maa Kali or how were you introduced to her?
Henika: Yeah. So my family is from the bhakti faith. So we're from the Hare Krishna movement, but we're from Gujarat. So Navaratri is a very, very celebrated time in my home. These nine nights of the Divine Feminine, I remember, it was always my favorite festival. It was always one where I was taken to all of the nine nights to dance and to witness the devi changing forms in the center of the altar. So this is my first contact with the devi. But I would say that my personal devotion and my personal relationship with maa Kali came from the darkness, my own journey. And so it was my own calling that I responded to with maa Kali.
Chandresh: And what do you say, what are we missing in terms of understanding the Divine Feminine, not just Goddess Kali, but the feminine, the Shakti energy. You clearly see so much of information, buzz, trending talks happening on YouTube, social apps, TikTok, everywhere. And yet I personally feel this is not the complete essence of Shakti. And one of the many, many reasons I adore you is because I feel you genuinely connect with that Shakti, you connect with that feminine. What do you think is missing? What are people missing when they get in touch with that energy, and they are starting to explore her?
Henika: That's such a beautiful question. I feel that this buzzword Divine Feminine, I think it comes really loaded because I feel that Shakti, I love language, is a part of Sanskrit language that doesn't have a direct translation because it's beyond word, it's beyond concept. It's beyond form. Actually, it's something to experience. And when we come at it with this translation of Divine Feminine, we think of everything that we think feminine is and discard everything that we think that it isn't. But Shakti is everywhere. It's in every single cell, every single part of nature, every single storm, and it's inside every single storm inside of us.
So I feel that what's missing is this connection of the Shakti within to the Shakti outside as well. So this commonality of the natural world to understand the inner world, I feel that that's something that's not spoken about so much. And also I feel that Shakti as this form of deep creativity, I feel that my prayers more often now come from writing, and moving, and creating art. And I see this as a form of prayer to Shakti. And I feel that perhaps that's something that that's diverted from as well, that it's also creative force.
Chandresh: I love that. Many Sufi poets, when you read their poetry, it looks like they were writing for a romantic partner relationship, but when you get to know their journey, there was no partner, no physical human there. That was their devotion to the divinity. And sometimes I feel this is what we are missing. And I love how you are channeling the love language of Shakti into art, prayer. Is that the consistency you maintain and creating art, writing, or are there more activities that you devote to Shakti?
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. I feel that this living life as a prayer, I think, is one of the most beautiful ways to honor Shakti. I also feel that having a regular devotional practice is good as well, just to keep that consistency as well. So I have my altar space, I have somewhere that I sit and I devote myself in prayer, in conversation to Shakti. I celebrate Navaratri as well, where I'll clear my schedule several times a year to go deeper into my own practices and my own conversations with Shakti. So there are many different forms, but I would say, yeah, on the day-to-day basis, I feel like it's no good if we just, or I speak for myself, if I just devote five minutes of the day or half an hour of the day to Shakti, but actually to embrace that as a spirit that we feel through the day, I think, is really how I keep that connection alive in myself. So that is often through the arts and through nature and experiencing the different forms that I feel that she comes across.
Chandresh: And do you feel creating an altar has helped you to maintain the discipline? Is that an essential element of showing up?
Henika: Yeah. Well, something I quite like about tantra is that there's two ways to see it. So there's one way of creating that sacred space that your body, and your being, and your cells know that this is a place of concentration and sacredness and entering into that space brings your vibration directly to that point of devotion. And then the other side is that I always say that there are different altar points within the body. So even if you are not with your altar at any point, you can visit these Shakti bits, these beautiful altar points in the body. And so actually there's always an altar within that is with you at all times. So I see this as a bifold way as a of it's nice having that, but if you don't have that, your practice can continue. And I like that. I love that freedom.
Chandresh: Wow. I loved two things. I'm loving everything you're saying, but two things are not leaving my mind. Shakti's a love language and now the inner altar. I'm going to tap into it whenever I travel, going within the altar within. Love that.
Now we are talking about Shakti. Two things are showing up, Henika. So this used to happen a lot. It's calmed down because I'm also sharing a lot about goddesses lately. But when I used to share on and off, because I always felt it's so personal, so vulnerable, I don't know how to talk about this, but many women would always reach out and they would say, "You talk about goddesses, Shakti. But each time you talk about goddess or Shakti or the Divine Feminine, it triggers the mother wound in me. I don't have that safe, beautiful relationship with my biological mother. And perhaps you have great relationship with her and that's why you are able to celebrate the mother, the Divine Mother." So I would always share my take, my experiences, but lately, I've been encouraging every seeker to reflect on how they relate to the biological mother so that it can help you to relate to the Divine Mother. What's your take on it? Do you witness the mother wound becoming a bit more tangible when people show up for the goddess Shakti?
Henika: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I've experienced in myself moments of chanting Jai Ma in Greek, beautiful reverberating circles and memories have emerged from my relationship with my mother that I've not thought about in years. And so I find that the more that we work with this concept of maa, actually the more that we have opportunities to heal our relationships with our own mothers and also our relationship with the earth, the great mother as well. And so I feel that all of these are reflections, imprints, or templates. One template is a template of how we might relate to another mother, and another mother is another template of how we might relate to the earth mother. And so we can use these as guides of how to deepen our relationship with our mothers, how to heal our relationship with our mothers. But yeah, ultimately of course, it would bring out that wounds. And I think that's for a good reason, actually.
Chandresh: I agree. I fully agree. And I think that the solid point you're mentioning here is the expanding how you relate to just the mother energy. There's biological mother, there is the great Divine Mother, but then there's also earth. The food that comes from earth, they all are nurturing us. And when we let go of that confinement that there's only one shallow relationship I hold with the fellow humans and there's bigger picture, then I think the healing starts to happen. Then we release ourselves from our own cages. Correct? Makes sense?
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think even if we are not working directly with having conversations with our mother, if we are working on our relationship with the spirit maa or the earth maa or any of the goddesses that we are sharing, then we are unconsciously on a different level healing that relationship with our mother. And I've found in terms where I've gone away and done long periods of trainings or devotions, and I've come back and I haven't had these conversations with my mother, but I've felt a deeper connection. And so it mirrors back, this work always mirrors back.
Chandresh: Was that extremely uncomfortable for you to open that space with your mother? Was she uncomfortable or do you think it started with a more harmonious, peaceful note for you both?
Henika: No, no, I don't think so. And I think particularly when I was working through things like grief, these were conversations that I had never had for decades. So it's not an easy process, but I think being in touch with it in myself is a gift in conversations that allows my mother at that time or anyone that I'm speaking with, to be in touch with that in themselves. And so then we can share that as an experience. Any of the work that we do, it's a gift that we can share.
Chandresh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And as we are talking about goddesses, maa Kali, tantras is of course showing up. It has to show up when we talk about maa Kali. And one of the things I love about the way you show up in your work is the way you present tantra, because I have definitely calmed my inner tantra police in the last 10 years or so, it used to trigger me so much when I was in my early 20s. Now it's much more peaceful. But I genuinely loved how you showed up in tantra, and it was refreshing. That's the one word that you were willing and curious to explore the real tantra and share the authentic tantra, but then you're also putting your language on it. You are putting your twist on it, and I love that. So question is, how do you define tantra? What's your vision of tantra?
Henika: I love this question, and I think my legal mind wants to answer it with when it started and the book definition. But actually, I'm going to go with the definition that's in my heart because that's my own personal relationship with it. So for me, tantra, it's this meeting point of the inner world and the outer world. And so it's being able to watch a sunset and feel that sunset inside of me. It's being able to look up at the sky and feel that expansiveness inside of me. It's being able to see the storm and connect with my own storms inside. And so it's, for me, tantra is this view of dissolving. It's dissolving those distinctions that I am separate. And so I hope that that gives them a more embodied definition of for me what tantra is because I feel that each practitioner will give their own, depending on which path and how they've come to it, they'll give their own definition. And I'm trying to move away from the tantra is this by the book and more towards how I experience it.
Chandresh: But what do you think people don't understand about tantra? When you mentioned the word tantra, many people within the spiritual community, they have their own perception, their own understanding. What's that one element that you think people are still missing about authentic tantra?
Henika: I feel that the different schools of tantra will always be saying I'm right. So one school will say, "This is the way to meet the divine." And then another one will say, "This is the way to meet the divine." And that will always really be there because that's what different schools do across different subjects always. And so I guess what's missing within that is the commonality underneath it, or what is the commonality? There's always elements, key elements that are there. There's always the union of Shiva and Shakti. It's just that the path to recognizing that might be different.
And so I think it's a recognition of the differences and the recognition of the end... I hesitate to say goal, but where the path is leading. And I suppose, I guess, it's important to talk about the neo side of tantra as well, where often many are attracted to tantra because they're attracted by this kind of neo concept of sex and sensuality, but actually not recognizing that this is a path. And so not stopping on the path but seeing that actually it continues on into consciousness and evolution and expansion. So I think that's one thing that is not often spoken about in terms of seeing this as part of the path, but not the end goal, not the end moksha, not the end liberation.
Chandresh: I love that. So the questions I've asked you, I was thinking we'll talk about these heavy questions in the end because they're heavy, but we started with the solid heavy set. So I'm going to pick certain soft petals from what we have discussed and hear your take on it. And one of the fascinating things you're doing in tantra is connecting it with sensuality, connecting it with honoring, understanding sensuality in a very elegant way, in a very sophisticated way. What's your definition of sensuality and what do you think we need to learn more about it?
Henika: Absolutely. So for me, sensuality is the vehicle of Shakti. So it's one of the ways that we can actually experience the force of Shakti within the body. It's a way that we can dance with Shakti within the body. So Shakti being this inner energy and life force. So for me, that's what sensuality represents. And then we can move it to the more ethereal, the more physical realm of this ability to live life through the senses. And so to be able to connect with life fully through the senses with an adoration, with a devotion to the senses, and life becomes so rich with it's painted in so many colors when we connect to life this way.
Chandresh: How do we cultivate more of it?
Henika: Yeah. How we cultivate more of it? So that leads into it. It can be on a day-to-day basis of paying really a lot more attention. So making life the meditation. So making each bite a conscious bites, making each walk that you take are really soaking in like a sponge of the senses. Then we can move that also into our own practices. So when we're doing a big part of what I share and what I do is this tantra yoga. So it's about connecting to the senses in between the postures. So the way that I share is that in between the postures, there's always moments to be in stillness so that we can actually feel the sensations of what is happening, where those sacred messengers are landing, and so bringing it into our own devotional practice as well.
Chandresh: And do you feel a better understanding of sensuality leads to better intimacy? A more healing form of intimacy shows up.
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. Because what we're doing when we're working with sensuality is that we're bringing Shakti sensuality in with Shiva consciousness. And so we're learning to unite these two forms within us. And when we go then and we may share an experience with another, we are going with that united consciousness. We're going with that flow of the Shakti, but the consciousness of it being there, and that's then what we can share from that empowered place with another. But I always say we're working on that inner relationship first that in a dance within before we go out and we share it.
Chandresh: Mm-hmm. And you facilitate date nights in the Sensual School of Arts. So I want to hear more about the school and then also about the date nights, what happens there?
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. So it's like a three-hour meditation, but I call it a date night. And so it's an experience where it's a guided ritual of connecting with a partner more deeply. Each of the date nights is inspired by a sacred text. So I work with the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, and I take beautiful parts of it and create experiences based on the text. So they all have a route. And then within that route, the different date nights that we have worked on, the first one works on expanding through the senses, touching on what we've just shared. And that's through offering each other a ritual. And I always explain, for example, in the first date night, I explain that how we were talking about alters, and temples, and sacred spaces. In the date night, we go to our partner as a temple space, we go to our partner as an altar space, and we go to them as one of our greatest teachers as well.
And so we don't need to find the divine necessarily outside of ourselves, but we can go in this experience to find that with each other. We can find that through the way that they might react to part of the ritual, we can find that in the way that we look into each other's eyes. And so it's a form of acknowledging and receiving each other in a divine way through ritual and through expression and through... It's creative. So the guide is there, but it's very much an experience that the couple experiences for themselves. So every single date night that has been taken will look completely different to the other one.
Chandresh: Do you think people... I'm sure when you started and now there's a difference between how you conduct and how they show up. But has it been a gentle, organic process for them as participants to open up? Or do you think they were hungry for something like this or they were uncomfortable? What was your observation when they started showing up?
Henika: Yeah. Well, you see the date night, it's not an interactive experience between me and the couples, actually. It's an interactive experience between the couples themselves. So I explain the concept, I explain where this work comes from. I explain what the tasks are-
Chandresh: Let them play.
Henika: ... and I let them play. So it's more like an exploration between the couple rather than a date night with me, if that makes sense. But I think as couples return to this date night or to this work, of course their experiences deepen as well. So the concentration deepens. If we combine this with practice, then our ability to hold our concentration with each other deepens, our ability to learn each other's bodies deepens. And so each experience has that possibility to go deeper within that.
Chandresh: So in all these experiences of witnessing the intimacy, Shakti, goddesses, teaching yoga, facilitating yoga, what would you say, what makes a woman loved? What makes her feel seen, honored, and loved? Is there something you have discovered in the process about the woman?
Henika: Absolutely. So I find that what makes the woman feel seen, felt loved, all of this is the experience of safety. As a core foundation, if the body feels safe, then from that point, she can feel seen, she can feel loved and everything flowers from that point. But even from a biological point of view, if our nervous system is at a point in of rest and digest, then from that point you can see what is underneath. If it's in a space of this fight and flight, then actually there's this armor that comes up around the body. And so you never really get to experience what the true being is because there's this armor that's fighting to keep safe essentially. We're animals.
And so the same way that, for example, back in cave days, if the female felt that there were no threats around then that would be a time to procreate. But if there are threats around then that's absolutely not a question. It's quite simple, really. But I think in a world where it's not even safe to walk down the street sometimes in some cities for some women, then that actually becomes quite important.
Chandresh: Mm-hmm. And as a man, I want to ask you, what can a man do to make a woman feel safe? Is there an online space, offline space, in the friends' circle, romantic circle, student teacher in every sphere, what do you think, what could a man cultivate in himself to make the woman around them, not just the woman I know, but just the woman, the feminine around me?
Henika: Yeah. I think this is... We cannot speak about this concept of being a woman without talking about the fact that we are cyclical being, we're all cyclical beings. And as a cyclical being, we show up in different ways through the month, whether we menstruate or we don't menstruate, actually. So as a part of being a cyclical being an acknowledgement that we are different on different days of the month, we don't show up in the same way in different days of the month. And so I think as a man, being able to hold that cycle and being able to acknowledge that that is different days have different elements, and different flows, and different parts of ourselves that are born in that cycle, and different parts of us also die within that cycle. And so I guess this recognition of being able to hold the cycle and being there for that cycle with steadiness, I find.
Chandresh: This makes me imagine how Shiva would honor Shakti Parvati just being there and not trying to do too much, just being there. I love that. And now I definitely want to talk about Yoni Shakti. As a tantra student, tantra seeker, I meditate on the Yoni Shakti, Goddess Kamakhya is a very deep-rooted part of my training. I meditate on her mantra every day. So when you started sharing so much about the Yoni Shakti, I was curious, fascinated, because I don't see many teachers talking about Yoni Shakti the way you are talking about. So I would love to hear it in your language. What's your take on Yoni Shakti? What can more men and women know about it?
Henika: Absolutely. So I feel like there's a few different layers with Yoni Shakti. So when I'm sharing Yoni Shakti work, I'm sharing it from the physical level, I'm sharing it from the cyclical level, and I'm sharing it from the spiritual level as well. So on all three of these levels, creating a different narrative to what we know the yoni as. And I said earlier that I love languages. And so one of the best things that we share is what is this area? If it's not called a yoni, what is the yoni known as in different languages? And the amount of those words that are also offenses that are actually quite disrespected as words and disrespected as areas is very high. And then on the physical level, I explain this connection to the yoni as if we're trying to call somebody and they're over the other side of the room, what do we do?
We call their name. And so many of us are walking around with this incredible wellspring of Shakti these yonis without knowing the names for the different parts of the yoni. And so to connect with the yoni, we need to know the names of the different parts of the yoni so that we can build our own relationship with them so we can start our own conversations with them. So part of the work that we do is actually quite anatomical. It's actually getting to know what is residing in the yoni and how we're working with yoni, and how then on a spiritual level we're observing. Then once we have this connection to the space, we're observing it as the seat of creation, the seat of creative power. And so as I hope that explains the trifecta of the way that I approach this work.
Chandresh: Yeah. Is there a book that comes to your mind that readers can glimpse into or even read? Because I'm sure men, of course, don't know so much about it, but many women also are not so deeply indulged with their own bodies, right?
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. So I've done a great deal of training with a wonderful teacher who wrote a book called Yoni Shakti. Her name is Uma Dinsmore-Tuli, and that book is actually a manual, it's like 800 pages long, and it has everything in there from Mahavidyas to practices, very detailed practices, to case studies, and she's a really, really wonderful teacher. So I highly recommend the book, Yoni Shakti, to learn about Yoni Shakti.
Chandresh: Love that. Right. Okay. And so recently you mentioned a post about normalizing the breast size. And I love how you are explaining and entering into new spaces, Henika. Every month you'll share something that's different from what you were sharing three months ago. And I can tell you are also pushing yourself to get out of the pattern, the zone and talk more and more about normalizing the things we don't talk about.
So let's talk about breast before we end the podcast. What do you think men and women need to understand? Men clearly are obsessed with breast. And the tantra perspective is very interesting when a certain chakra, certain energy or relationship is not fully aligned with them. So they'll keep finding the answer and in a woman's yoni or the breasts. So yeah, it's not my interview, it's your conversations. I want to hear your take on it. What do you think, when it comes to breast, what's the taboo here? What are we missing in learning, loving, and understanding the sensitivity of that area?
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. I think what we're missing, and the way that I like to connect to this area is through anahata and is through hridaya. So through the spiritual heart and seeing that the breasts are an extension of the spiritual heart. And if we understand that and we connect to the spiritual heart within ourselves, then actually a lot of the shame that we hold around our breasts can start to melt away because we see that this is a form of nurturing. And even the breakdown of hridaya, it's this balancing, it's giving and taking the translation is this area which gives and takes. And I feel that the breast is an area that gives a lot to the world in terms of commercialization, in terms of the gaze which meets it, and also of nurturing others as well, nurturing children. But it's an area that doesn't often take, it gives a lot and it doesn't take. And in the Tao practices, this area is an area that we go to then to generate that nurturing energy to give back to ourselves.
So to invoke that energy and to use it to nourish our own hearts, and to nourish our own organs, and to nourish our own bodies. So I feel that that's really missing because I think when we think of breasts, it's very physical. There was something that I heard the other day where somebody was talking about their daughter who was breastfeeding in public, and somebody came up to them and said, "You should go into the toilet to do that." And the mother who was feeding said, "Would you go and have your dinner in the toilet?" And that's the thing, there's so much shame and so much makes people feel uncomfortable about the breasts, that these are the conversations that are happening. And there's so much healing to do in that space as well, in order for us to access the heart, because it's sitting either side. We can't only work at the heart with ignoring this area that is also there and alive.
Chandresh: Mm-hmm. So what would you recommend? What are simple things one can do? Men could understand more about the sensitivity of their breast, and women can be more empowered about honoring and embracing that space. Does that... Yeah.
Henika: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I think not to take for granted the power of words. So if you're with a lover that you feel comfortable with, then to share words of adoration, because often those are exactly what someone needs to hear, and those are the things that can melt away the thawing around the breast. And not only, "Oh, they look nice," but words of devotion, words of adoration, words of deep respect can be really, really healing.
Chandresh: Yeah. Reminds me of ancient poets, even tantric mystics that they would simply gaze at the breasts, at the female breasts and without any lust, without any possession or control, and simply adore them, write poetries, books of poems on that. And tantra said, this is how you can go beyond lust, and you can move into devotion. And that's what's missing. But I'm very hopeful your date nights are accomplishing that goal for many couples. One curious question that showed up, Henika, we talked about Yoni Shakti, breasts, tantra, goddesses, but someone who is in the family dynamic, maybe they're living with family or maybe not living with them, but very still strongly rooted with the family. How can they maintain this practice? How can they explore this of living within the family dynamic?
Henika: Yeah. That's a really good question. Well, I feel that this work, it's not something to be ashamed of, connecting to our bodies, connecting to the spirit within our bodies. And I feel that... I started sharing my work in my family home. Let me give my own example. And one of the first questions of my mother asked was like, "Are you a witch?" And I thought, "Why is she saying that?" And so what I did actually was I invited her to attend one of my Shakti circles. And to show her some of the work that I was doing.
So if there are questions around some of the practices that you are doing, then why not share some of the practices that you're doing? Because there's nothing to be ashamed of. Actually, generations upon generations, our families could really, really, really do with this work because they may have grown up in times where this was couldn't have been a conversation at all anywhere. And so a way to see it when we are doing this work is that we're healing generations worth of shame that may have been passed down through us. And we're doing that work so that we don't pass it on forwards, whether we have children or not, but we are each individually taking that power back for our bodies.
Chandresh: And do you feel your old friends, maybe high school friends, college friends, extended cousins and all, do you feel they, they accept you and celebrate you in this form? Or some of them are still uncomfortable, doubtful, or some of them are celebrating and rooting? What's the dynamic there right now?
Henika: Yeah. I think not everyone always understands what I do, but I don't think that they judge me for what I do because I think they can see that it is a path that has brought me so much depth, and fulfillment, and happiness, and peace, and expansion. That the question of how I think becomes another way. I think if there's somebody that you care about and you see that, okay, there's a transition that's happened from earlier in this podcast, we spoke about me 10, 15 years ago to now, then what's the harm in the path of that? And so I think it shines when you do this work, it shines and it's seen for whoever you are with. So just stay true to what feels right, I think, for ourselves, for our beings. And the rest, I don't really think about whether anyone judges me, actually. I just do what's true for myself.
Chandresh: And my last questionnaire is, what's a spicy opinion you have that others don't agree with? Is there something that's juicy and spicy, but others are like, "No, no, I don't agree with it," or is there none?
Henika: Ooh, I'm sure there's a lot. From this conversation about the breasts that we're having and just what's happened today, I can share one, but just this form that breasts can be shared as a form of art on public platforms, but real breasts cannot be shared at all because they're seen as profane. The definition of profane is something that is not holy or unsacred. So my work at the moment is pleading for why. And I think that's met by some hostility. But also, I suppose, another one now when I'm speaking to this is something I also speak about is cultural appropriation. And that's often met by a lot of hostility. So that's sometimes spicy to talk about. So just thinking about where a lot of these practices originated and honoring that, and the lands that they came from, and the ancestors that they came from, that can be spicy to talk about as well. So I'll leave you with those two.
Chandresh: These are good. Thank you. And finally, how can people connect with you, learn with you, know more of you? Give us some nice accessible platforms.
Henika: Yeah. Absolutely. So I share my work most probably on Instagram as a touch girl. You'll see me on there sharing lots and lots. So that's my Instagram, it's my name, and that's also my Instagram for the School of Sensual Arts. So that's where we have a beautiful community as well. And we share some of the practices that I've been speaking about today. So both of those places.
Chandresh: Nice. I'll share the links. Definitely. Thank you, Henika, for being here, for sharing your heart. This was a conversation I wanted to have for so long, and I'm thankful. I'm glad we had it.
Henika: Thank you so much for having me, Chandresh.
Chandresh: Thank you.
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