Holiday Anxiety - A Discussion
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In this episode, Chandresh sits down with Jenna, a Leela team member and student of psychology and mental health. During the holidays, there are many people who experience joy and excitement as they look forward to the celebrations. However, there are also many who experience social and emotional anxiety. In this episode, Chandresh and Jenna discuss the spiritual perspective of holiday anxiety, along with answering the following questions:
What is holiday anxiety, and what are the symptoms?
What role does gender play in holiday anxiety? How does the patriarchy affect holiday anxiety?
In what other ways does the holiday season affect our mood?
What are some strategies to manage holiday anxiety and ways to shift the perspective?
Episode Transcript
Chandresh: Hi Jenna, how are you doing?
Jenna: I'm doing great. How are you today?
Chandresh: I'm doing well, and we are going to start our first conversation with the uncomfortable topic of holiday anxiety. I have my share of memories where I felt anxiety. I did not know it was anxiety. I got to know when I started reading books, and there was a name for it, holiday anxiety. And I thought it could be a good topic as we end the year to begin our first official conversation on the podcast. So is there any comfortable or uncomfortable memory you have with the holidays when you were a little girl?
Jenna: Yeah, I mean, when it comes to the holidays, I feel like when you're connected to anxiety, you kind of feel the anxiety of the adults that are around you. So growing up, having big holiday events, being in an Italian family, you felt the pressure coming from your parents to get your stuff together, too, because the family's flying in from all over the country, and you've got to be on your best behavior. So I definitely remember that as a young kid just trying to get everything together with my parents. But I'm a child, so how much can I actually do?
Chandresh: Italian family unions are so much like Indian family unions, you cannot feed all the feelings, you have to only portray a specific set of feelings and that's rewarded and accepted. You don't have to mention them, obviously, but was there a particular relative that triggered you when you were going through the holiday time with them?
Jenna: Yeah, I think a lot for me was my uncles, because I feel like I didn't have that much of a relationship to them and I was always a little different than my other cousins. So I was always kind of marked as the troubled child. So it'd kind of be like every holiday season it'd be an interview, or like, oh, what are you doing now with your life? And it started very young. Even when I was younger, we were playing sports, and it was like, oh, so how well are you doing in sports, or are you on the tournament team? It was always waiting for everyone to just keep leveling up every holiday season, and it's like, why are we talking about these things right now? Aren't we supposed to be enjoying each other's company?
Chandresh: It reminds me of my cousins, who are younger right now. They're in high school or starting their college life, and all they experience in the holidays, not all the time, but most of the time, is a comparison with the extended family.
Jenna: 100%.
Chandresh: And it's brutal, obviously. Holidays are supposed to be a time of healing, but healing is not even in the picture. Yeah, do you feel it becomes a shallow celebration of the family name in the end?
Jenna: I think 100% that. I think everyone kind of puts on a face, and their outfits, and kind of acts like everything's great, because we're all around everybody else. And you've got to show face and be like, yeah, I'm here, and everything's great, but this could be a time that we could all talk about real things, not the superficial things of how many goals I scored that weekend. It's like, how are you doing? You never really get that question around Christmas time.
Chandresh: Right. And I feel people-pleasing becomes a huge thing. I have personally known, I know plenty of people in my culture who may be going through a physical illness, maybe mentally tired, exhausted, but they'll continue to host new guests every other month or day, only because they've got to please, they've got to honor that holiday. There's a saying in India. It's a Sanskrit saying. It's called Atithi Devo Bhava, which means a guest is like a God. So there is-
Jenna: A high standard.
Chandresh: High standards, right? And this was also the official tagline of the Indian tourism, that if you come to India, this is what you get, Atithi Devo Bhava. You'll be honored like a divine being. It sounds amazing on paper, but imagine if you don't even have capacity of showing up as a human. How could you treat someone like a God? It's extended to the marriage where the woman, not the man. Woman is told very clearly, your husband is not the husband, he's God. There's a word for it. It's called Pati Parmeshwar, which means your husband is a God. And you would actually notice certain spiritual religious images, where the God is just taking care of the male, the God. The male God. And these kind of, I feel, certain ancient so-called traditions and morals, and everything, they kind of go so deep into your system that you barely have your own mindset to make the decision to do the right thing. I know in Italian culture, religion is a big thing. Indian culture, religion is a big thing. And now I'm guessing religion even plays the role in the holiday gathering.
Jenna: Yeah, I mean, if you want to do the male-female comparison, it's usually all the men are on the couch drinking beers, watching football, and then the women are all cooking, setting the tables, taking care of all the children during the holiday times.
Chandresh: Right. Oh my god. I actually spoke to women in the circle just a few days ago, because the holiday season is coming. And Navratri, the nine days of the Divine Feminine celebration, was there. And all the women I spoke to were angry, complaining, because that's what they were doing. Men were celebrating the ritual, but women were busy in the kitchens making sure the men have food on the table and delicious food. They just don't want the food. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad I noticed this, and I can correct myself as a male, but growing up this didn't even look uncomfortable. Honestly, this looked very normal.
Jenna: It looks like how it's supposed to be, because that's what you've been taught.
Chandresh: Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and what kinds of symptoms that people go through? The visible symptoms, the invisible are plenty, I guess, right?
Jenna: Yeah.
Chandresh: But the visible symptoms to you, when you start to know, okay, it's kicking in, ideas is rising.
Jenna: Yeah, there's definitely a lot of visible symptoms. I could speak for myself, but for me around this time I start losing weight from stress. So that's definitely a physical thing that I'm able to recognize for myself, and I definitely used to recognize that and my mother, too. As she was getting ready, she'd forget about taking care of herself and worry about taking care of everybody else. So that's what it is for sure. I mean, I could feel just with the fall coming in, the anxiety looming in with it. It's just like, oh, so what am I doing for Christmas? What are we doing for Thanksgiving? Last week, my dad asked me, what were we doing for Thanksgiving? I was like, we're going to talk about this already. We're doing this now. And I felt a sudden sense of just panic in my body, because I was like, I don't think I'm ready to do this right now.
Chandresh: Yeah, what do you think from where the panic comes? Is it the responsibility of hosting some people, or is it just you stepping into a new power?
Jenna: Yeah, I think for me, my family system is a lot different than it was in the past years. I used to have very large gatherings for every holiday, and most of my family has moved away now. So it's really just my internal family at the moment. So it's like, what restaurant are we going to for Thanksgiving? And then I have to find the restaurant and find where it is. I kind of took on the mother role in my household, in a way, when it comes to food, which is ironic, too, if you want to bring it all back to what you were talking about in the beginning. So I think it's just the responsibility, while also trying to handle all the other stuff that isn't holiday related that intensely goes on during the holiday season.
Chandresh: And I think sometimes we take on the roles that may not be comfortable, like you just said about the food, right? Even if it's not comfortable, but you kind of make a sweet compromise that I'll show up for it, because at the end of the day, it's not a terrible thing to do. Cooking. But you've also then got to have a nice boundary around it, that you're not just doing that 24/7, right?
Jenna: Yeah, and when I do cook, it's for three of us, so you can't really cook for three people for the holidays. So we have enough food for 15 people, and then I'm like, this is kind of sad, too, that it's only three of us here, and I have all of this food that I could be sharing with people, but there's no one to fill the house with in those times.
Chandresh: Right.
Jenna: So.
Chandresh: It reminds me of this guy. His name is Brandon. He still runs, I believe, Humans of New York page. Have you heard of it?
Jenna: Love that page.
Chandresh: So this is many years ago. I was watching his interview, and they spoke to him. How did you build the Humans of New York? I don't remember the full story, but what I remember was I think he was frustrated with his current job, and then he just started to take pictures, speak to people, and he started uploading those pictures on the Facebook, and they started going viral, and Facebook was the only thing then. And they asked him was there any uncomfortable moments of growth? Was there too much hustling? And all he could share in that moment was that it was Christmas, and he had no family, no friends here. And he was the guy who was taking pictures of everyone, but he didn't have anyone to speak to. And it was Christmas evening, and he was sitting in a diner having dinner, and while he was talking, he broke down. He started crying. And I was like, this is holiday anxiety, clearly, if it was any other Monday, Sunday evening, big deal.
But I think there is such an interesting collective media of romanticization of the holiday that it could make you clinically depressed if you don't have someone to talk to. If you don't have some great celebration happening, you could be depressed, talking to your own self, that I don't have anyone this evening. What do you have to say about that? Is it something you witness a lot among the friends or...
Jenna: Yeah. Definitely people that I know that have moved to New York, and their family is everywhere else. It's really a hard time for them. And it really all, as everything does, it stems back from childhood. You were a little kid and having these giant celebrations just in school, making all these decorations, having holiday parties. And as you get older, you aren't surrounded by the same amount of people just naturally in a school setting. So for all my friends who are here from school, it's sad for them, especially around this time, because flights are not cheap right now. So a lot of my friends this year are not going home, and it really makes them feel a certain type of way. It makes them feel like an outsider, which is crazy, because it's the holiday season and everybody's supposed to get together and gather people in, and it's like, of course, they could come to my Christmas and feel happy in the moment, but when they go home that night, they're like, I wasn't with my family.
Chandresh: Exactly. And I think this translates to very interesting types of stress, especially among the younger crowd, because they still haven't experienced so much of life. And this is where their, I think, perspective on relationships, friendships. It starts to build in a very interesting way. What I've also noticed many times, this leads to choosing wrong friendships, because you don't want to be alone. You don't want to handle anxiety, and you just pick up whoever is available. And in many cases, this is where also the journey into drugs, substance abuse starts to happen. And for me, I want to share when I thought of the topic, one memory that showed up, I grew up schooling in India, I did my school in India, high school. And the trend in India was when the holiday season begins in winter, it would be two to three weeks, and summer, more than a month, and they'll give you homework.
It was so much. Teachers took pride in giving that so-called homework that you would be busy doing that throughout the holiday. And if you come back to school, and if it's not done well, you are punished. And the punishment in Indian schooling was harsh. It depends on teacher to teacher, but it could be from anywhere to mental torture, to even physical beating if you haven't touched the homework at all. So I think now I look back, I feel maybe one of my strategy was to finish the homework within the three, four days. I used to do that, by the way. I would stay up all night, finish everything just to get done with it. And I think growing up, it made me hate the schooling system. I never had respect for the formal education system, because I realized I didn't learn anything. I only learned how to manipulate the homework. And I also realized if I get good grades, holiday comes, relatives ask the grades, I have something to showcase.
And it all started cultivating a very subtle dislike, or even hate, in many situations. But this is where it all leads to. And I feel is this even worth it. The whole system of inviting in people that you don't like, hosting them, then gossiping about them. And I've seen a very nice subtle change. It's not there yet. I mean, because I've seen the change, it's in a bubble, if I only look into certain lens. But still, the majority of population is invested in hosting, inviting the people that they don't like. They try to impress them, try to please them. And then there are certain pockets of people where they are like, no, I'm not going to have a big holiday party. I'm not going to have so and so, because this is not my jam. But I've seen in cities like LA or even New York, there are people who are so lonely that all they keep doing is hosting parties and holidays. And that seems like a very sad way of expressing that outlet, the lonely outlet. What do you think?
Jenna: Yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen things like that, and it's definitely an interesting strategy to try to fill that void of loneliness, because nine times out of 10, all those people that you're inviting to these events, are they inviting you anywhere afterwards? Most of the time, they're not. And that's something I've even seen in my own life. I used to host a lot of parties and dinners, but then you realize that no one's inviting you anywhere else either, though. So it's like, how much are you going to give of yourself, especially when you're lonely, to all these people that aren't necessarily caring, if you're lonely or not. It's like, they're just caring about having a good time, not about how you're feeling in this space. And I don't really like to carry around people like that anymore. I want people that want me there, and want to spend time with me and will exchange the energy in the space. But it's kind of hard finding that as you get older, because people get selfish in strange ways that you never think you'd really see before.
Chandresh: Yeah, have you seen that the times experience, the times before social media, you have memories of that?
Jenna: Yeah, definitely. Because it's even weird now, because you think you're still friends with someone, because you like their pictures every week. But when was the last time you actually picked up the phone and called them? And everybody paints a picture on social media.
Chandresh: Yeah.
Jenna: No one's going to post everything that's sad and horrible about their life. So you don't really know how your friends are doing, because of the happy posts that they make. You don't know how they feel in that moment of them posting that. So I feel like it's very disconnected, and I'm guilty of it, too. It's like, oh, I spoke to her on Instagram for five minutes the other day, responding to her picture that she posted. It's like, when was the last time you sat down and shared a meal? When people think that's okay, because you made that very small connection, but that connection's gone immediately after you click like. That's all it really is.
Chandresh: And do you think friendships were better before social media?
Jenna: 100%. You have put more effort in.
Chandresh: Right? I agree.
Jenna: People could say, they're best friends over the internet, and they haven't seen each other in six months.
Chandresh: Exactly.
Jenna: It's like, oh, I like your pictures the most. So I'm here the most. No, you're just on your phone the most. Yeah, that's really all it is.
Chandresh: I agree. And I feel for an introvert like me, this actually became a problem. I've enjoyed connecting with people on social media, but I also realized the antisocial in me.
Jenna: Yeah, you disconnected real quick.
Chandresh: Yeah, it's so comfortable with not mingling in people. And I get messages from people who are antisocial, fellow introverts, and they have the same issue. And, of course, extrovert have their own challenges and problems. And introverts have their own problems. But personally speaking, yeah, I started to miss on that feeling of actually sitting across someone and connecting, because in the last two, three years we didn't do that so much, because of COVID. And I realized, is the digital age giving an illusion of the intimacy, and friendship, and love, and nothing is happening in reality. And it's all in your head, and it's not going anywhere. Speaking of the digital relationships and intimacy, I want to explore this question with you. Do you think gender plays a role in how we handle the anxiety? And I'm specifically interested in exploring the patriarchy effect in the holiday season, and the men with no females, and I'm talking maybe no sister, no mother around, no wife, no daughter, no partner. So it could be a bunch of brothers or men. What do you think? How does that work out? Or is that even relevant?
Jenna: I think it's relevant.
Chandresh: Yeah.
Jenna: I think around these times that women are really supposed to have everything together. They're supposed to have the Christmas list ready, the pies made, the kids all dressed up in their cute little Christmas outfits. And I feel like there's a lot more responsibility for the women, physically doing things. But then I feel like on the men's side as well, it's like there's this anxiety of not having enough money for the holidays. And I feel like that's definitely a focus that I've seen with people that I'm having myself. But that's different. But having money for your kids to have the gifts, will you have the money to give to your wife to go buy the gifts? So I think about more economically, maybe for men versus all the physical stuff you have to do as a woman.
Chandresh: That's interesting, because yeah, men are assigned this role. They've got to be the caretaker, the money provider, and if they can't make enough for the holiday, I think it hits their ego, their heart, a bit too deep. I have personally met men who go through depression around this season, because the stresses. I've got to get something nice for my child, for my wife, for the family. The guests are coming. We've got to host with the best available. And if they didn't have a good year, or if they're just barely making hand to mouth, I mean, how much can you do? I always feel the feminine energy brings in a certain warmth. The role of men is so interesting, because they do depend on women for that comfort, warmth, and a more structured energy, because inside their heads they don't want to express emotions. They have the financial stress. And I feel their own image, their self image is so fragile in those days.
And yeah, we are not talking about millionaires only, but the ones who are struggling, who are going through either emotional hardship, even a millionaire could go through emotional hardship. That's for everyone.
Jenna: That's true.
Chandresh: Yeah. I mean, their emotional hardship is probably even more heavy, because they've got to show even a stronger persona out there. So yeah, God knows what they do to handle it, right?
Jenna: Yeah, you have more money, there's more problems. Are your gifts good enough with all the money that you have?
Chandresh: I remember this was a few years ago. Oprah tweeted that Microsoft had this iPad thing. I think, it used to be called Surface. I forgot the name.
Jenna: Yes.
Chandresh: So she did this sponsored tweet that I'm gifting all my employees and friends Microsoft Surface, and people were like, oh my god, this is a $600 stab. And she's gifting that. And then Twitter used to have this little bit of information there that this is tweeted from an iPhone or an Android. And what was written there was tweeted from Apple iPad. So she tweeted from iPad that this is such a good tablet, I'm gifting it to everyone. So my first thought was, wow, this is cool. She's gifting, I don't know, a thousand tablets to her friends and employees. And then I was like, oh, but she's still using iPad. It's just a funny, silly memory of gifts and holidays.
Jenna: No, around that time, all these celebrities have these sponsored deals, and they kind of look like they're doing a good thing. But a company just gave them a thousand tablets to hand out.
Chandresh: And I think 10 years ago, this was just a cool thing Oprah is doing. But now, influencers, I don't like the term influencer. I think nobody should be an influencer. Nobody should be influencing you. I find it a very heavy term to even mention, but nowadays you have these social media accounts with huge followings, and they set a certain calculation in your head that, look at me in the holidays, I'm going to Greece, Switzerland, Italy, and what are you doing just sitting in your little apartment and watching Netflix? So that adds in-
Jenna: The visuals, too. You see these influencers that have 600 pumpkins laid out beautifully, just laid in front of their house. And I have my three pumpkins that I was able to carry. And it's like you expect us to be like you. That's a lot of pumpkins.
Chandresh: And I think I have accepted, and made my peace with it that any time I open my Instagram, it seems like everyone in my account is going on a holiday in the most beautiful locations in the world. And I think I've made my peace with it. I've stopped asking or analyzing. What are you doing that I'm not doing? And when I'm going to go to these places? Because I realized this is just a mind going through its thing. Because when I started my work, my career, then the comparison was different. Oh, I knew this guy, I knew this person. They were doing nothing. And look at them now. They're doing so good. When am I going to match to that success? And the sooner I made my peace with that comparison. Quickly, I was able to come back to my strength, because comparison kills, I think every bit of joy that you have.
Jenna: Yeah. Vacation doesn't mean you're successful.
Chandresh: Yeah. Exactly. And when I speak to people who are going to vacations. I don't want a vacation like them, because there's a lot of behind the scene darkness that I cannot go through. And that also helped me, I think, to make my peace with it. Because if you are staying in, I don't know, Greece for two months, and you are making a decent, below-average kind of money, then there's a lot of stuff that happens to make that two-month stay in Greece. And when I started knowing the details, I felt concerned for them. I still do. And then I also told myself that you cannot do this. You're not made for this kind of adventure. So yeah, step back, relax, be grateful for what you have.
Jenna: Exactly.
Chandresh: Because there's too much behind the scene drama that we don't know about.
Jenna: We only get the nice pictures of the nice times in their two months, so you don't see all the darkness.
Chandresh: And I think staying in LA taught me one thing, that behind all the glamor, there is a very toxic darkness. And the sooner you make your peace with it, the earlier you can enjoy your life. I think. Do you want to talk about what strategies, solutions we can bring in to manage anxiety?
Jenna: Yeah, I would love to talk about that. This is my area.
Chandresh: Yeah, do you want to, by the way, tell the audience what's your education background?
Jenna: What I'm doing? Oh yeah, sure. I'm in my last year of my licensed mental health counseling program at City College. I'm going to be a therapist, but right now I am interning in psychedelic assisted therapy.
Chandresh: At City College in New York, for those who don't know.
Jenna: And I have a background in substance abuse. So, yeah.
Chandresh: Nice.
Jenna: That's what I'm doing.
Chandresh: Nice Jenna, all right, so I think the first thing, pick by the way, whatever you want to start with, then I'll share.
Jenna: I'm a big list girl. I wouldn't be able to survive without lists.
Chandresh: Really?
Jenna: Yeah, it might be a little excessive, but I like to wake up every day, write out a list. Even if it's like, two things I have to do. It feels good when you just cross it off, and it's gone, and you did that task for the day. And especially during around the holiday seasons, I can't even imagine the lists I'm going to be creating soon. But having everything in front of your face laid out, for me, the kind of person that I am, works out for me. It's better to handle, besides going through it in your head over and over again. And it's not exactly tangible, and you could lose some things or forget some things. So for me, I'm a big list person around the holiday season, and I think it's a easy way to organize my thoughts.
Chandresh: Yeah. And what do you put in a list? Maybe even a trip to Target, that kind of thing?
Jenna: Yeah, definitely around Christmas time, I'll have the people that I need to buy gifts for. If I did pick up something for them, I'll write it next to their name. So I have a sheet pretty much of what I've bought for each person, and then I know when I'm done with each person.
Chandresh: Nice.
Jenna: So I don't have to run around and just grab things and hope for the best.
Chandresh: I like that. I have this app on my phone called Task. It's by Google, and I just put all the tasks on it. And I'll-
Jenna: Does it give you a little check mark when you're done with it.
Chandresh: Yeah, exactly.
Jenna: It's satisfying for me.
Chandresh: It is. And I realized it made me feel a bit weird, because I realized if I don't put anything on the task, I don't actually do it. When I'm putting something on it, it gets done.
Jenna: It gives you a little extra motivation. I don't know what it is, or the science behind it, but, I guess, it's just how my brain's wired. I'm a very pen and paper kind of person. I feel like if I made a list on my computer, I'd never look at it again, and it would just keep listing. But some people are more savvy when it comes to computers, and they like all the apps, and that's a way to do it for sure, too.
Chandresh: Yeah, this is something I really liked about you, that you are still into pen and paper. I haven't met anyone, honestly, in recent years who still uses pen, paper, calendar. I like the idea of writing, and I have my notebooks here, but I still depend on the apps for everything. Yeah. So, do you think it makes a difference when you write it with your hand?
Jenna: For me it does.
Chandresh: Yeah.
Jenna: Everybody has a different learning style, but I feel like when I write things out, you've got the muscle memory that comes with it, and it makes it a little more permanent for me versus something you could just backspace.
Chandresh: Right?
Jenna: Yeah.
Chandresh: Yeah, I'll share the second strategy, then I'll have you share the third one. For me, I think shifting perspective has worked decently well. Even when I look back, and remember the times when I went through a real anxiety, that was only because I could not shift my perspective. My energy was too focused on changing them. Why are they saying this? Why are they doing this? And there's a family inside joke that when I was little I would sit outside my home, and if somebody asked me, why are you sitting outside? And I would say, there's no place for me inside home, because I had too many people. And those too many people were two or three people. So, I think, I was always a bit overwhelmed with more than a few people in the room. And it stayed with me even as I grew up, that too many people around me would give me anxiety, until I started shifting my perspective that I don't need to change them, they don't need to change for me, but I must learn how to respond to my own thought pattern.
I must learn how to handle the anxiety, the trigger, the root of it a little better. So I think, whatever means for the listeners, shift your perspective, get to know the story of your narrative. What do you have to say about it? Do you feel it?
Jenna: Yeah, you've got to find those strategies for you. You left the space. That's what made you more comfortable.
Chandresh: I still do that by the way. My God.
Jenna: Yeah.
Chandresh: Still do that, actually.
Jenna: Yeah, you need to find ways to make yourself comfortable. It's like, yeah, we're in these situations where we have to deal with a lot of people sometimes, but if you know for yourself, if you take a second outside to gather yourself, and that's what's going to make you feel better, then run with it.
Chandresh: Yeah. Thankfully, I don't sit outside the home, now. I'll either sit in the car, drive.
Jenna: More freedoms.
Chandresh: Yeah. More options, thankfully, as an adult, right?
Jenna: Yeah.
Chandresh: Third one, what would you add?
Jenna: Boundaries for sure. I'm a big boundary girl, especially around the holiday season. I think it's important for people to learn how to say the word no. It's definitely a hard thing to say. You want to take on everything. You want to take everyone in. But if you don't set those boundaries for yourself, you're going to go a little crazy during the holiday season. You can only take so much. Yeah, you want to have eight family members staying in your house, but how are you going to do that when you only have two queen-size beds? You're going to put yourself all the way out that by the end, when it comes to January 2nd, you're going to be exhausted for the rest of the year. It's for such a short period of time when it really comes down to it's like, why are you going to string yourself out so much? And really, for what? People are going to figure it out regardless. You don't need to stretch yourself as the one human that you are for a whole family.
Chandresh: Speaking of boundaries, one very uncomfortable thing that I have been reflecting on, and this is coming from a lot of feedback I've received from students, especially during the holidays. Some interesting weird relative would show up, who could put you through emotional abuse, verbal abuse, or even sexual abuse. And sadly, no one knows about it during that time. This is something you discover many years later. And I feel one thing that needs to happen is if you have a younger sibling, cousin, or your children, you've got to watch them from a reasonable distance. So.
Jenna: Yeah, I need to make sure everyone's safe. I don't even know how I feel about that situation in general. It's like if there's a murmur through your family, do you think the kids should be hanging out? And that's like a hard discussion to have, too, because it's he said or she said. You don't really know what was going on. But for me, if I had children, and there's even a slight inkling that this might get weird at some point, they aren't coming.
Chandresh: Exactly.
Jenna: Yeah.
Chandresh: Exactly. And I think there is a certain population, who would put the guest hosting higher than protecting the space of their children, or their cousins, or siblings, or whoever. But that's sad. And I feel this could have some serious consequences, and so many things in the future. So boundaries, saying, no. And if by the way, happening to anyone who's listening, anyone trying to cross any sort of boundary during the holidays, because I think it's easier to cross the boundary during the holiday. You've got to stop them right away. You cannot be nice, polite about it. You've got to just stop them. That's the only way.
Jenna: It's not a time to be nice or polite, because they're not being nice or polite.
Chandresh: Right.
Jenna: And I feel like alcohol factors into it a lot, too. They like to blame, oh, they were drinking or this or that. Yeah, but we were all aware of it, too. So maybe that person shouldn't have been drinking either.
Chandresh: And I think there has to be a balanced consumption of alcohol, or even any food, also.
Jenna: Yeah.
Chandresh: Because it acts up with your brain.
Jenna: Gluttony in any way.
Chandresh: Exactly. Right. The next one that I personally depend on is physical and mental movement. And what I've always done, meditation and daily walk, I feel it doesn't matter what drama is happening in the background, if you could find 10 minutes to just focus on your inner peace, and even 20, 30 minutes of walk, it kind of just relaxes the entire drama, because sometimes everyone is going through anxiety, and if they can go on a walk with you, as well, sometimes even that dissolves the built up tension. Right?
Jenna: Yeah. It's ironic, but I like to keep myself around the anxious people, because they know how I'm feeling, and we can both find release together.
Chandresh: I have done that in the past. That's why the idea of walking together showed up. I've, of course, gone on walks by myself, but I've seen if they go with you, I mean, I'm talking about the members who are not super toxic, right? People that you can actually speak to. You notice, okay, now we are not really cracking the ice here, or breaking the ice. That's the term. We are not really breaking the ice here. Maybe they can go on a walk with you. And I think a walk has this very interesting way of calming down the unnecessary external noise, and you come back to your much better emotional space. And yeah, one last point that you want to end with.
Jenna: Let's go with alone time, because it's my favorite time. Right. So, obviously, during this time period there might be a lot of family members, a lot of friends, there's a lot of stuff to do with work and school, and it's kind of hard to find these moments of alone time. But even just having 15 minutes to yourself a day could change your whole perspective on everything else that's going on in the day. And I really think it's important, even at work, when you go on break, take that time that you have on break to be alone. Don't sit with people and eat. Try to find some time that you have by yourself, because it really will make you breathe better for the rest of the day. It's hard when you have all this outside stimulation. Sometimes you need to quiet the world around you.
Chandresh: And how would you pick that alone time? Is it usually within the house, or do you-
Jenna: I like to physically leave the space that I'm in.
Chandresh: Right?
Jenna: Yeah. I'm big on that, because if I'm just doing my alone time in my room, I won't leave my room for the rest of the day. Can't make it too comfortable that you're going to be stuck there.
Chandresh: Right? Yeah, and I think there is a freedom and liberation when you leave the space. And even sit in a cafe nearby, even that works very powerfully. Do you enjoy writing? Do you enjoy doing any activity in your alone time, or are you just chilling down?
Jenna: I'm more of a just sit and observe person. When I go on breaks, I'm in the city for my internship, and I'll just plop on a bench, and just people watch for the half hour there. Listen to music, very calming music. Just kind of lower all my senses and calm myself down, before I have to go on with the rest of the day.
Chandresh: Yeah, my grandma used to tell me this about myself. She said, whenever you would throw tantrums and cry, and just being uneasy to handle, she would take me out. And she would just make me sit or just hold me, and make me watch people on the street go by. And she said, you were so calm, relaxed, just watching the people go left and right. And I remember I still, I think, find my peace there, if I can just sit and watch people. There's something so interesting about watching people. I don't know what science is there, but watching birds, watching humans.
Jenna: It's like we're all sharing this space right now, but we're not connected in any way.
Chandresh: Yeah, I think that's what the freedom is, that I'm watching them, but I'm not with them. So there's this interesting space between you and them.
Jenna: The disconnect is important, sometimes.
Chandresh: It Is. Yeah, it is. I forgot the exact wording of the poetry, but there was a poetry from West Bengal in India. It was actually a whole novel, but written in a poetry form where they talked about lovers who are lovers, but they don't live together. They hang out, they connect, but then they go their separate ways every evening, and then they again come back. Again, they connect next day or next week. And the whole idea of the story was that this distance makes them connect really well, because then they're not in each other's space all the time.
Jenna: They've got to pull a little more work in.
Chandresh: Yeah. Less codependency, right?
Jenna: Yeah. It sounds healthy to me.
Chandresh: It is healthy, I think. And yeah. Anything else, Jenna, before we sign off?
Jenna: Not really, just thanks for having me here.
Chandresh: Thank you for being here. And I hope listeners, audience, I hope you like this conversation. I hope to do more. And they know I'm so lazy in coordinating, but, thankfully, Jenna is here. She's not on Zoom, so I think we will make this happen more often.
Jenna: Physical space.
Chandresh: Right? I know. Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Jenna.
Jenna: Thank you.
Useful Links
Find Your Source of Happiness - 21 Day Challenge
Private Guidance Program with Chandresh
